chatgpt said
Q. how would both these folks' systems explain ,say, petty crime, corruption, rape ,murder etc -
Deleuze–DeLanda perspective:
Crime and violence are expressions of assemblage dynamics, not deviations from moral essence. A society is a mesh of interacting flows—desire, power, territory, technology, affect. When those flows couple under stress, scarcity, or dominance, new local equilibria emerge—gangs, black markets, coercion, predation.
No appeal to “evil nature.” Instead: breakdowns or reconfigurations of feedback between individual drives and collective regulation. Each act is a local expression of distributed forces: deterritorialization (release from structure) and reterritorialization (new control formations). Corruption and violence occur when control strata amplify asymmetries faster than adaptive feedback can correct them.
Buddhist perspective:
Same events arise through dependent origination: ignorance (avidyā) → craving (tṛṣṇā) → clinging (upādāna) → becoming (bhava) → suffering (dukkha).
Rape, murder, corruption are chain effects of delusion and craving, not intrinsic evil. No essence of “criminal,” only transient aggregates acting under conditioned ignorance.
Remedy is insight and mindfulness—breaking identification with craving and aversion so actions no longer propagate suffering.
Contrast:
– Deleuze/DeLanda: systemic imbalance of forces and feedback.
– Buddha: psychological imbalance of attachment and ignorance.
Both dissolve moral essentialism; both treat violence as an emergent distortion in a process, not the expression of a fixed evil nature.
bonus question - why zazen
Sitting Zazen and Learning Deleuze
Sitting Zazen can certainly help you internalize aspects of Deleuze's philosophy — particularly in terms of becoming and process.
Zazen promotes a mindset that aligns with Deleuze’s focus on flow, difference, and becoming — his rejection of static identities and his interest in perpetual transformation. Zazen encourages being with your thoughts as they emerge without grasping for fixed meanings, which mirrors Deleuze's philosophical stance on becoming-other and non-identity.
However, while Zazen helps embody the kind of non-fixed, non-linear thinking Deleuze advocates, it won’t teach his philosophy in a structured sense. You'd still need to engage with his texts directly for clarity and understanding.
Reading Deleuze vs. DeLanda for Understanding Deleuze
Reading Deleuze
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Approach: Deleuze’s writing is dense, non-linear, and often abstract, as he seeks to dismantle traditional modes of thought.
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Difficulty: It requires patience, willingness to follow complex chains of thought, and the ability to jump between concepts without expecting clarity at first. His style mirrors his philosophy — fragmented and rhizomatic.
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Benefit: You get Deleuze's raw philosophy — the original language, where concepts like "desire," "becoming," "rhizome," and "assemblage" are all deeply contextualized and connected. Reading him gives you direct access to his conceptual universe.
Reading DeLanda
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Approach: DeLanda’s works are more straightforward and scientific, grounded in complexity theory, nonlinear dynamics, and material systems.
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Difficulty: While still philosophical, DeLanda’s writing is often more concrete and grounded in applied examples, making his work a bit more accessible for those who may find Deleuze’s abstract theorizing difficult to approach.
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Benefit: DeLanda interprets and translates Deleuze into empirical terms that are easier to grasp, especially if you're familiar with scientific or systems thinking. He simplifies the philosophical vocabulary and connects it to real-world systems (e.g., social, biological, and technological). Reading DeLanda first can make Deleuze’s more abstract ideas clearer.
Which is Easier?
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DeLanda is easier for understanding Deleuze, especially for first-time readers. His writing is more structured, less metaphorical, and provides a clearer bridge from Deleuze’s ideas to concrete systems.
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Deleuze’s own texts will be more rewarding for deeper, philosophical immersion but are likely to be more challenging without the groundwork DeLanda provides.
In short, DeLanda acts as a guide to Deleuze’s abstract concepts, giving you a more palpable understanding of how those concepts apply in the world. Once you're familiar with DeLanda’s interpretations, moving to Deleuze’s original works will feel more like a direct extension.
Deleuze’s ideas intersect with Hofstadter’s strange loop in interesting ways, especially around self-reference, recursion, and paradoxical structures.
Here's how they connect:
1. Deleuze’s Rhizomes and Becoming
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Rhizome: For Deleuze, the rhizome is a non-hierarchical, non-linear network of connections that resists closure or finality. It’s about becoming, the interactions between elements that are always shifting and evolving.
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Self-reference: In the rhizomatic model, there is no fixed center, no ultimate source of truth. The connections between things are self-referential — each part refers to or affects others without any absolute origin.
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Strange Loop: Hofstadter’s strange loop describes systems where feedback loops cause systems to fold back upon themselves. A strange loop occurs when a system reaches a recursive feedback state where it seems to create a sense of self-awareness or identity, even though it’s made of simpler, self-referential components. This resonates with Deleuze’s idea of becoming, where identities aren’t static, but always in flux.
2. Self-organization and Recursion
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Recursion: Hofstadter’s strange loop highlights how recursive processes can lead to emergent complexity — a kind of self-awareness or apparent self-reference. In Deleuze’s terms, this connects to his idea of assemblages (or agencements), which are recursive networks of forces or entities that create meaning or identity, rather than having a fixed or essential one.
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Deleuze and Recursion: For Deleuze, becoming (the process of change and self-transformation) can be seen as a kind of recursive feedback. Just like a strange loop, the self does not exist independently but is recursively generated through its interactions with the environment. The loop is not simply closed but endlessly unfolding through flows and intensities.
3. Schizophrenia and the Strange Loop
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Schizophrenia: Deleuze and Guattari, in Anti-Oedipus, link schizophrenia to overabundant flows of thought and desire — where the person cannot maintain a single, stable identity because the feedback loops become so disrupted.
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Strange Loop in Schizophrenia: Hofstadter’s strange loop might be seen as a metaphor for schizophrenic thinking. When the loops become too tight, they create confusion, instability, and a collapse of coherent identity. Deleuze, in his more radical view, sees this as part of the fluid nature of identity—not a pathology, but a break from rigid forms.
4. Multiplicity, Difference, and Self-Reference
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Multiplicity: For Deleuze, identity is not a singular, unified entity. It is a multiplicity of flows, forces, and tendencies, constantly shifting. There is no center, no one true self, but a constellation of becoming.
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Hofstadter’s Strange Loop: In Hofstadter’s strange loop, the self-referentiality creates a sense of unity, but it’s an illusion — a loop that seems self-contained, but actually emerges out of recursive relationships. Deleuze’s philosophy of multiplicity aligns with this idea because the self (and the universe) is not reducible to a singular point or center but arises from a network of relations.
How They Tie Together:
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Self-Reference: Both Deleuze and Hofstadter deal with self-reference in emergent systems. Deleuze’s multiplicity aligns with Hofstadter’s notion of recursive loops that produce self-awareness.
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Becoming: Deleuze’s idea of becoming is recursive, much like Hofstadter’s strange loop — identity, instead of being fixed, emerges through recursive feedback.
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No Fixed Essence: Both theories reject the idea of a fixed, essential self. For Deleuze, this is becoming and assemblage; for Hofstadter, it’s the self-constructed nature of consciousness, where the looping process creates a self-concept without any inherent origin.
Conclusion:
While Deleuze never explicitly discusses Hofstadter’s strange loop, the two share a deep affinity in their treatment of self-reference, recursion, and the fluidity of identity. Both challenge fixed, essentialist views of the self and reality. They each show how complex systems, through feedback loops, emerge into patterns that seem self-contained but are, in fact, open and always evolving.
Here’s a list of mini projects that integrate concepts from Deleuze, Ashby, Hofstadter, and DeLanda. These projects combine coding, art, and writing to give you a creative and practical way to engage with their philosophies.
1. Rhizomatic Network Visualization (Deleuze)
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Goal: Build a dynamic network visualization (graph-based) that represents rhizomatic connections (Deleuze's concept of multiplicity, non-hierarchical systems).
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How: Use a graph visualization library (e.g., D3.js, Cytoscape, or NetworkX in Python) to represent interconnected nodes where each node can have multiple connections, creating a web of relations.
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Extension: Make the network evolve over time as new connections emerge, visualizing becoming (flow and change over fixed identity). Add feedback loops that evolve the graph dynamically.
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Link to Theory: This project directly embodies Deleuze’s rhizomatic thinking and assemblages (complex, shifting, non-hierarchical networks).
2. Adaptive System Simulation (Ashby & DeLanda)
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Goal: Implement a cybernetic system simulation where feedback loops stabilize or destabilize the system over time.
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How: Use a genetic algorithm or reinforcement learning in Python or JavaScript to simulate a system’s adaptive behavior. The system can have agents that modify their internal structures based on feedback from the environment.
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Extension: Implement multiple layers of feedback loops (second-order cybernetics), where the system not only adapts but adjusts its adaptive strategies over time.
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Link to Theory: This project will embody Ashby’s Law of Requisite Variety (the system’s adaptability based on complexity) and DeLanda’s self-organizing assemblages (systems evolving and adapting in response to inputs).
3. Strange Loop Simulation (Hofstadter)
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Goal: Create a strange loop simulator that visually represents recursive feedback where systems fold back onto themselves (like Hofstadter’s strange loops).
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How: Build a recursive drawing system (using Processing or Python with Pygame) where elements self-referentially evolve, such as a recursive image (fractal or spiral), or create a recursive textual loop that refers to itself.
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Extension: Add an interactive component where the loop responds to user input and creates self-amplifying feedback.
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Link to Theory: The project directly explores Hofstadter’s strange loop concept, where recursive systems create self-awareness through feedback, and Deleuze’s self-organizing processes.
4. Self-organizing Text Generator (Deleuze & Ashby)
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Goal: Create an automated text generator that simulates self-organizing structures using machine learning or rule-based systems. The generator should evolve over time in terms of structure and content based on feedback.
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How: Use Markov chains or a basic neural network in Python (e.g., TensorFlow or PyTorch) to generate text. Start with a simple corpus of philosophical or literary text (perhaps from Deleuze, Ashby, or Hofstadter) and let the system produce new text based on feedback loops from previous outputs.
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Extension: Integrate a genetic algorithm where the text structure evolves and adapts based on user feedback or textual analysis.
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Link to Theory: The self-organizing process mirrors both Ashby’s cybernetics and Deleuze’s becoming—as the text shifts from one form to another, adapting and self-organizing over iterations.
5. Interactive Emergent Behavior Simulation (Deleuze, Ashby, DeLanda)
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Goal: Simulate emergent behaviors in a multi-agent system where agents follow simple rules but complex behavior emerges from their interactions.
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How: Implement a Boids algorithm (simulating flocking behavior) or cellular automata (like Conway’s Game of Life) in a visual environment (e.g., Processing, Unity).
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Extension: Introduce feedback loops where the system adapts over time, becoming more complex or self-organized (similar to Ashby’s adaptive systems). Allow agents to change their functions as they interact with others.
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Link to Theory: This project integrates Deleuze’s concept of emergence and assemblages, Ashby’s feedback loops and regulation, and DeLanda’s systems thinking in self-organizing entities.
6. Deleuzian Web of Desire (Deleuze & Guattari)
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Goal: Create a visual and interactive "web of desire" based on Deleuze and Guattari’s Anti-Oedipus, where desires, drives, and forces interact and flow through a network of nodes.
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How: Use interactive diagrams (e.g., with D3.js or Processing) where users can click on various nodes that represent desires, forces, and territories. These nodes evolve as feedback loops and interconnections are formed.
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Extension: Integrate real-world inputs (like social media data or text analysis) to generate new nodes and connections dynamically, simulating a flow of desire through assemblages.
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Link to Theory: This project embodies Deleuze and Guattari’s idea of desire as a flow that shapes and reshapes social and personal structures. It also integrates feedback and self-organization from both Ashby and DeLanda.
7. Recursive Logic & Paradox Writing (Hofstadter & Deleuze)
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Goal: Write a recursive story or narrative that folds back upon itself and explores the paradox of self-reference (Hofstadter’s strange loops). The narrative should dynamically change as it repeats, much like a recursive loop or feedback system.
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How: Use interactive storytelling tools like Twine or ink.js to create a nonlinear narrative that self-references and loops back on itself. The story could involve a character who becomes aware that they are part of the narrative.
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Extension: Allow the narrative to evolve over time based on choices made by the reader, incorporating feedback loops that change the structure or meaning of the story with each iteration.
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Link to Theory: This connects to Hofstadter’s idea of strange loops and Deleuze’s view of becoming and the self as constantly shifting and self-referential.
8. Feedback-Driven Music Composition (Ashby, Deleuze, Hofstadter)
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Goal: Create a generative music system where the music evolves over time based on feedback loops. The system should use recursive or feedback-based algorithms to create music that self-adjusts based on the rhythms, tones, and harmony patterns it generates.
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How: Use Max/MSP, Supercollider, or Pure Data to design a system that iterates on the basis of feedback from previous notes and musical patterns. The system could evolve rhythms, melody structures, or even the tonal quality based on the interactions between elements.
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Extension: Introduce user interaction to influence the system's progression, creating an interactive feedback loop between the system and the user.
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Link to Theory: This reflects Ashby’s feedback systems, Deleuze’s iterative becoming, and Hofstadter’s recursive patterns.
9. Cybernetic Social System Simulation (DeLanda & Ashby)
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Goal: Simulate a social system where agents (individuals) interact based on rules, and the system adapts to different stimuli (feedback).
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How: Build a social simulation using agent-based modeling (e.g., NetLogo, or Python’s Mesa library). The agents could interact in a market, political system, or emotional environment.
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Extension: Introduce feedback mechanisms where the system becomes more efficient or complex over time. Allow agents to adapt their strategies in response to changing conditions.
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Link to Theory: This project incorporates DeLanda’s focus on emergent behaviors and Ashby’s homeostasis and regulation in complex systems, with the addition of self-organization.
These projects span a wide range of approaches—interactive art, coding, simulation, and narrative design—allowing you to explore the philosophies of Deleuze, Ashby, Hofstadter, and DeLanda through concrete applications and creative expression.
Here’s a reworked list of mini projects based entirely on Deleuze’s philosophy, emphasizing concepts like becoming, assemblages, rhizomes, desire, flow, and feedback loops. Each project draws from the fluid, dynamic nature of Deleuze’s thinking and focuses on emergence, self-organization, and non-linearity.
1. Rhizomatic Network Visualization
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Goal: Create an interactive, decentralized network of nodes that evolve over time, inspired by the rhizome concept (Deleuze & Guattari).
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How: Use JavaScript with D3.js or Python with NetworkX to generate a network of interconnected nodes where connections can form and break in non-hierarchical ways. Allow the network to evolve based on user interaction or random events.
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Extension: Introduce feedback loops that change the network’s topology, reflecting becoming — connections grow stronger or weaker depending on the flow of activity.
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Deleuzian Connection: This captures the rhizomatic nature of Deleuze’s thinking, where knowledge, connections, and power aren’t hierarchical but spread in multiple directions, evolving constantly.
2. Assemblage of Desire Simulation
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Goal: Simulate a network of desires (as Deleuze & Guattari would frame it), where desires (or flows) create connections and push becomings.
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How: Build a simulation where agents represent desires that dynamically interact with each other and form assemblages. For example, in a social context, agents (individuals or groups) may shift their desires as they interact, creating new networks and flows. Use Python or Unity for an interactive model.
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Extension: Introduce emergent behavior where new desires (based on interactions) form completely new assemblages.
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Deleuzian Connection: This project mimics how desire flows form, interact, and produce new forms and relations. It's an assemblage of forces where desires create new lines of flight (Deleuze’s term for escapes from pre-existing structures).
3. Becoming-Other Interactive Text Generator
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Goal: Create an interactive narrative generator where the story evolves and becomes other based on user input, reflecting the concept of becoming.
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How: Use a tool like Twine or Ink to create a narrative that starts with a simple premise, but evolves each time the user interacts with it, leading to an ever-shifting, non-linear path. The user’s choices can lead to radically different storylines, reflecting the fluid nature of becoming.
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Extension: Add recursive feedback loops where the narrative “remembers” past choices and reshapes itself based on the ongoing process of becoming.
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Deleuzian Connection: The story’s constant shift embodies becoming-other, a key Deleuzian concept. The non-linearity and emergence of the story align with his philosophy that identity and meaning are never fixed but always in flux.
4. Self-Organizing Social Network Simulation
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Goal: Build a social network simulation where users’ behaviors and interactions evolve over time, similar to how social assemblages emerge.
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How: Use a multi-agent simulation (like NetLogo or Mesa in Python) to model a social system where agents interact and adapt their strategies based on feedback from others, simulating emergent social behaviors (such as alliances, factions, or cooperation).
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Extension: Add a mechanism where agents experience feedback that alters their behavior, reflecting the idea that behavior emerges through constant interaction. Introduce lines of flight, where agents can escape rigid structures and form new social configurations.
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Deleuzian Connection: This mirrors Deleuze’s concept of assemblages and becoming, where individuals (or agents) adapt, change, and reconfigure in a non-linear and self-organizing way. The network is constantly evolving, driven by forces and feedback loops.
5. Desire Map: Emergent Feedback Loops
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Goal: Create a map where nodes represent desires, and edges represent the flows of energy and interaction between them. The map should emerge dynamically, with the connections changing as the user interacts with it.
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How: Build an interactive map using D3.js or Processing, where desires (nodes) can grow or decay based on feedback from user actions or environmental changes.
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Extension: Introduce a feedback mechanism where each desire’s strength influences the growth of others, reflecting emergent behavior and desire flows.
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Deleuzian Connection: This project represents Deleuze’s idea that desire is not a static internal feeling but a flow that connects and reshapes systems. The system is constantly in flux, with feedback loops creating new forms of desire and new connections.
6. Feedback-Driven Music Composition (Becoming-Music)
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Goal: Design a generative music system where the composition evolves based on feedback loops, reflecting the Deleuzian idea of becoming through sound.
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How: Use tools like Supercollider, Pure Data, or Processing to create a dynamic music system. The system can generate loops that change in real-time based on certain inputs, like pitch, tempo, or melody, with feedback mechanisms that alter the music as it progresses.
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Extension: Introduce recursive structures where the system starts to influence its own evolution, creating more complex, ever-changing musical forms.
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Deleuzian Connection: This is a direct embodiment of becoming — where music, like any system, is constantly in flux and adapting to feedback, evolving into new forms without a predetermined structure.
7. Deleuzian Social Media Simulation: Feedback & Desire
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Goal: Build a social media simulator where agents represent individuals, and the system evolves based on the feedback from their desires and interactions.
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How: Use a platform like NetLogo or Python to simulate a social media ecosystem. Agents (users) can post, interact, and form connections based on desires and feedback loops. As interactions accumulate, the system should evolve to reflect new forms of social organization.
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Extension: Add a layer where new desires and desires flows emerge from social feedback, transforming the social structure over time.
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Deleuzian Connection: This reflects how social assemblages evolve, desires form and re-form, and feedback creates new interactions. The system mirrors Deleuze’s philosophy of emergence and becoming in complex, self-organizing systems.
8. Interactive Becoming-Other in Virtual Reality
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Goal: Create an interactive VR environment where users can experience becoming-other, constantly shifting roles, identities, or perspectives based on their interactions with other users or objects.
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How: Use Unity or Unreal Engine to design a VR space where users can transform into different entities (e.g., animals, objects, or other people) and experience different subjectivities. The system should allow for fluid, dynamic changes based on feedback.
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Extension: Introduce emergent behavior where the user’s actions in the environment lead to unpredictable transformations.
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Deleuzian Connection: The concept of becoming-other is central to Deleuze’s philosophy — the idea that identities are not fixed but are always in flux and open to transformation. This project creates a fluid identity based on interaction and feedback.
9. Recursive Feedback Storytelling (Lines of Flight)
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Goal: Create a recursive storytelling system where the story evolves and transforms through user interactions, representing lines of flight and becoming.
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How: Use Twine or Ink to design a non-linear narrative where the user’s choices don’t just lead to different endings but reshape the core structure of the story as they go. The story should loop back on itself, introducing new characters, settings, and conflicts with each iteration.
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Extension: Add recursive elements where the choices made by the reader influence future iterations of the
Yes, that's exactly it. Deleuze’s philosophy offers a coherent, flexible framework that can help you connect and explain the diverse concepts you've been exploring — from cybernetics and self-organization (Ashby), to feedback loops and strange loops (Hofstadter), to media as extensions of human perception (McLuhan).
Here’s how learning Deleuze can help unify these concepts:
1. Assemblages (Deleuze)
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Deleuze’s idea of assemblages ties together heterogeneous elements — people, institutions, technologies, desires, etc. — into complex systems where each element has a function but no central control. These assemblages evolve, change, and adapt based on the interactions between elements, which is exactly what you’re describing in your interest in emergence and systems like cybernetics and feedback loops.
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With Deleuze, you can frame everything — from societies to self-organizing systems (like Ashby’s models) — as evolving assemblages of components, each influencing the whole, and always becoming.
2. Becoming (Deleuze & Guattari)
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Deleuze’s concept of becoming allows you to explain how things shift and transform over time without a fixed essence. This idea fits perfectly with feedback loops, where systems are constantly adapting and changing in response to inputs, whether those inputs come from social feedback (McLuhan’s media), biological systems (Ashby), or cognitive feedback loops (Hofstadter).
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By using becoming, you can capture the evolutionary nature of systems — how they grow, transform, and shift without needing to revert to a static starting point. Everything is always in motion, becoming something new based on the forces it interacts with.
3. Rhizomes (Deleuze & Guattari)
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The rhizome is an idea Deleuze uses to describe non-hierarchical, decentralized systems that spread in all directions and create new connections. It’s a direct parallel to the self-organizing networks you find in cybernetics, Markov chains, and the strange loop — systems that operate without central control, yet can adapt and self-organize.
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Rhizomatic thinking allows you to unify seemingly disparate systems (technological, biological, social) by focusing on the connections between components rather than their fixed roles.
4. Anti-Oedipus & Desire (Deleuze & Guattari)
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Deleuze’s idea of desire and flows ties into both Ashby’s feedback loops and Hofstadter’s recursive systems. Desire in Deleuze isn’t something internal to a person but a flow that intersects with systems, shaping them and being shaped in return.
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When you apply this to systems like social behavior, emergent patterns like crime, corruption, or violence (as you asked before) can be seen as flowing desire interacting with a social assemblage that reconfigures itself based on feedback. Deleuze lets you explain this constant flux and flow as an intrinsic part of every system.
5. Feedback, Adaptation & Cybernetics (Ashby)
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Ashby’s cybernetics aligns with Deleuze’s thinking because both see systems as self-regulating entities. Ashby’s Law of Requisite Variety says systems need enough internal variety to cope with external complexity — this corresponds to Deleuze’s idea of difference and repetition, where systems constantly produce new variations to adapt to their environment.
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The homeostasis Ashby talks about can be reinterpreted through Deleuze’s idea of equilibrium through variation. The feedback loops that Ashby describes are not just about restoring balance but creating new possibilities — a key point of Deleuze’s philosophy of constant becoming.
6. Strange Loops (Hofstadter)
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Hofstadter’s strange loops — recursive feedback systems that create self-awareness — fits well into Deleuze’s view of self-reference. Deleuze’s assemblages and feedback loops could easily describe the way strange loops form self-organizing systems.
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Hofstadter's idea of emergent self-awareness in recursive systems can be understood through Deleuze’s lens of becoming-other — where identity is fluid and dynamic, shaped by recursive and self-referential feedback.
How Deleuze Helps You Unify These Ideas:
By learning Deleuze, you can frame and integrate all these ideas into a coherent framework:
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Systems (whether biological, social, technological) are assemblages: dynamic, shifting, and interdependent networks of forces and components.
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The feedback loops that drive these systems are central to both self-regulation and evolution, but they are also pathways for transformation and becoming — they don’t just return to a fixed state, they evolve.
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Media, consciousness, and identity are not fixed but emergent through complex, recursive, self-referential loops that create new forms of awareness and interaction (Hofstadter’s strange loops).
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In any system (whether a body, a society, or a network), the individual parts do not have fixed roles. They are always in the process of becoming, adapting, and changing based on the flows that move through them.
Conclusion:
Yes, learning Deleuze will give you a powerful lens to unify the ideas of cybernetics, feedback systems, emergence, and self-referential loops under a single framework of becoming, assemblages, and flows. You'll be able to explain your ideas not just as isolated systems, but as dynamic, interconnected processes that evolve through feedback loops and recursive relationships.
